Belief in Democracy 6/8
Views of people from Turkey and Holland on statements made by Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria, Turkish president Abdullah Gül and prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan in the Dutch VPRO documentary ‘Turkije – Het Dilemma van de Democratie’: ‘Turkey – the dilemma of democracy’ that will broadcast on 8th of October. Daily at Sargasso from October 5th until October 12th, at 13.00h (Amsterdam time, 14.00h Istanbul time). This blogging project is part of the Dutch democracy week WijZijnDeBaas (WeAreTheBoss): the Dutch contribution to the International Week for Democracy. More information here.
If your fear is about Islam – you already got it. You already have millions of Muslims within your borders(video)
Fareed Zakaria,
Newsweek journalist
Emre Kizilkaya | The Istanbulian
turkish journalist, Hürriyet newspaper, blogger.
“I don’t agree with the wording of the quote. It is like a doctor, saying, “If you fear is about cancer, you already got it.” Countering the Islamophobic arguments with such provocative expressions is not a true way. European Xenophobia is not something new. The only solution to this problem can be based on a widespread European education which would teach the future generations that Europe is not Rome and foreigners are not barbarians. Muslims are just one portion of all foreigners. Defining the whole problem by concentrating on a part of it makes the problem even worse”.
Metin | Talk Turkey
blogger, Metin didn’t directly comment on the statements but contributed several related posts on his blog, this one is on ‘Islam vs. Islamists’.
“We need to save our religion from being hijacked by terrorists. We’ve all been complaining about not having similar thinking moderate Muslims around us, and have been quick to blame all others for our silence. When criticizing Israel for example, the political state’s actions should not be taken as anti-Semitic or even anti-Jewish, in the sense of the exclusivity of Israel over the monotheistic religion of Judaism. One should be separate from the other.
And conversely, the point is the same in Islam between political Islam and religious Islam. Of course, some ‘Islamists’ will argue that one cannot live without the other, that Islam is a ‘totality’ religion as it pertains to all aspects of life, and that Mohammed himself was a political leader, as well as the religious. So the battle continues to re-identify ourselves by distancing our philosophy, or remove ourselves from the viruses of society who live amongst us”.
Erkan Saka | Erkan’s field diary
blogger, thesis on Turkish journalism and the European Union, Ph.D candidate Anthropology at Rice University and instructor at the Public Relations Department of Istanbul Bilgi University.
“Well, of course to begin with this is an illuminating proposition and a surprising move rhetorically. However, culturally concerned fears of Islam is not altogether irrelevant as Turkey’s entry might have real consequences in the demographics and social formation of the EU populations. So far Muslims are fragmented minorities in many European countries but with the entry of Turkey, Muslims will become one of the not minor but major actors in the EU social life. Of course, if Germany and France, who has larger Muslim minorities, could have devised some fundamental ways of welcoming their minorities in the past, the future expectations would not be that grim. In the end, I understand very well the anxiety relating to Muslims, but when it is raised to the level of “fear” then some other global and national discourses appear. I will vote for 9/11 and rising right-wing politicians as the causes of “fear”. When I interviewed a PM advisor, he said there would be a major take on Turkey’s EU communication strategy after the elections and now i am waiting to see what will emerge. AKP’s new strategy should target both the domestic and EU scenes…”.
Haluk Direskeneli | Energy Newsletter Turkey
blogger, energy expert.
”
Islam is in your brain- in your beliefs- it is completely personal and should be kept personal. Those who make the confusion will surely learn the reality by further and tough experience in future”.
Beatrice Vanni | Arabisto and Turkey & My Foreign Perspectives
blogger, lives in Turkey, and helps people gain visibility for their work and attract more clients through high-quality writing, editing and project development.
“Amen! Is there a country on this planet without Muslims, without Jews, without Christians and a cast of thousands of others? I think not and hope not. As countries broker deals with each other for political or economic reasons, why should our religions be viewed as a way to avoid reconciliation and teamwork?”.
Christine Quirk | Quirk Global Strategies
blogger, expert in political campaign and communications, worked, traveled or studied in more than 50 countries around the world.
“Again, I’m an outsider in this debate. I do think that the US has done a better job of integrating Muslim immigrants (actually, all immigrants) into society than most European countries. Ever hear the chant from the gay rights movement “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it?” Europe can’t really ignore its southern neighbor, as much as it might want to”.
Michael van der Galiën | The Gazette
blogger, frequent visitor of Turkey with interest in the politics and culture of the country, published columns in the Turkish Daily News and is correspondent in the Netherlands for Pajamas Media.
“Quite right. Those who fear Islam are a bit late to do so. Besides, those who fear Islam are often unaware of Islam’s largely peaceful past and peaceful traditions. Quite some Dutch – I bet – have heard of the philosopher Rumi, but how many know that he was a convinced Muslim?”.
Hans A.H.C. de Wit | Internations Musings: Istanbul, Florence, Athens, Yerevan and Dubai | blogger, international communication manager, lives in Turkey, cross cultural specialist.
“Fear for Islam is a basic fear in the West, especially after 9/11. But not the religion is the problem, its the social structures in most of the Muslim countries which undermines full democracies: its tribe system, their sheiks etc. Its culture relativism, it lack of respect for human rights, for women rights etc. Secular Muslims’ which keeps religion out of politics is the best way, not secularists, people who in fact create an ideology next to a religion”.
Ben ik nou gek of is het bovenstaande in een ‘gekke taal’ geschreven?
@Kornuit: Read this and you’ll understand (if ever):
http://www.sargasso.nl/archief/2007/10/04/belief-in-democracy/
OK, dank jou, but is fur dutsch piepel alzo ein ‘vertaling’ in range?
http://babel.altavista.com
For Dutch readers, here’s a [url=http://www.linkezoep.nl/Turkije.php]history of Turkey[/url] that I wrote. I tend to agree with much of what Fareed says. Since the military coup in 1980, when the CHP was banned and its leadership (Ecevit) incarcerated along with a quarter of a million other people, it is clear to me that the army no longer truely represents the ideals of Atatürk, but can only implement a right-wing dictatorship. So a few more head scarfs in public buildings would be much better than that. The problem with Turkey joining the European Union lays at the moment not in Turkey (with a military junta it would), but in the EU, where some politicians play narrow-minded xenophobic sentiments, instead of explaining benefits of a larger EU to the people…
Emre:
“I don’t agree with the wording of the quote. It is like a doctor, saying, ‘If your fear is about cancer, you already got it.’ ”
Emre, I don’t think Fareed meant it in that (negative) context. We should stop looking at the glass half empty, and instead realize it’s half full.
Besides, it doesn’t mean that since you already have something (bad), you should stop fighting against ‘contracting’ more of that something (bad).
Islam should not be solely judged on how it’s perceived when it’s on the ‘outside.’ But also appreciated by the tenets of the ones on the inside. Just as ‘Muslim’ citizens of non-Muslim countries do live their lives accordingly within their new adopted and embraced co-identity, the Muslim countries of ‘non-Muslim’ originated organizations would as well . . .
The joining of the EU is not a prerequisite to belonging to Europe. We need to be able to distinguish the difference between geographical and political arguments of each side.
The more important question should be, is the EU here to stay, and would the EU benefit more from Turkey in the long run by chasing after it, versus Turkey’s insistence that it would, at the expense of begging for an invitation.
And by ‘pushing’ the Turks, the supposed model for moderate Islam, to take sides in the ever-growing polarity between Islam and the West (as if Islam is not part of the West – as Fareed said), could have dangerous implications for all concerned.
Kornuit:
Ever been outside the Netherlands?
The fear for Islam is clear, but the fear for Turkey is not clear. Can you explain?
@Hans: i’ve transgressed in the past zhe provincial borough between Gelre and Utrecht, but zat was jaars ago. But i didn’t no dat die reactions must have bien also in fremdsprache. The suggestie Steeph did to my adress was after al very hoesvol when then i coed read the artikel in my mothersprache wich is bien Overasselts. Thenks very mucho to Steep for that nice gesture!
Ik heb meer angst voor andere primitieve landen die zich Democratisch noemen ,terwijl ze zich bezighouden met de doodstraf en bloedwraak . Polen is daar een mooi voorbeeld van .
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodstraf
Oh Shit de onderwerpen vliegen hier ook zo enorm snel voorbij ,deze reactie was bedoeld voor het onderwerp hierboven